Abolitionist Design

In a world where 84% of ads are never seen, most brands are functionally invisible. Good design has the power to fight invisibility — arresting our attention, creating meaning without interruption and communicating in ways most brand marketers only dream of. But beyond fighting invisibility, design has the power to use invisibility. In recent years neuroscientists and behavioral economists have confirmed what philosophers and artists have long known — we are not thinking creatures who feel; we are feeling beings who post-rationalize our experience. In this session we will explore the power of design to create brand worlds that resonate on unconscious levels. We'll discuss ways to use the invisible facets of emotion to create visibility for clients.

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Stresa is the creative tractor Blackboard Revolt a social

justice based design studio and an assistant professor of

graphic design and the director of design Justice

at the University of Minnesota.

As a community engaged scholar, she created project natural which

captures which creates spaces to

educate connect and Empower black women about their natural hair

and self-identity.

And racism untaught which is a curriculum model that

reveals racialized design and helps students Educators

and organizations create anti-racist

Concepts through the design research process.

She's currently a PhD candidate in social justice

education at the University of Toronto.

She also serves as a core team member of African American

graphic designers or the aagd and

as a collaborator with the black liberation lab, please

join me in welcoming Teresa to the state.

Okay, there's a second little thing here. I'm

confused.

Okay. Hi everyone. How are

y'all? Y'all doing good. I know it's after lunch.

Y'all got a y'all got I need like the amens the claps. I need

that.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. I want to start off first with some

gratitude. I know we did sort of a landing management at the

beginning of the conference, which I really appreciate but I also want to acknowledge my

ancestors. I want to acknowledge the historical Freedom

Fighters and abolitionists with

you know, which I would not be here today if it

hadn't been for their continual fighting and I also want to recognize my

Thank you girl, look at me.

Okay, so why am I speaking to you all today? I

had a really great introduction. Thank you so much, but

Yeah, I'm a Minneapolis space abolitionist organizer.

I also am a lifelong learner at the

University of Toronto right now, which is kind of funny and

I'm an educator. I'm in

the classroom, you know each semester like a

lot of Educators that might be here today and then I'm a designer.

I'm a design researcher and illustrator and I use

those as tools to you know,

craft positive change in community.

All right, so I'm here to talk about abolition and I

feel like the word abolition, you know has become

this sort of mainstream thing that folks are kind of, you know becoming aware

of but it is a very old term, you know,

and we talk about abolition. We talk about, you know,

the history of slavery all those things. So I'm here to talk

to you about that connection between abolition.

And design and if you are not an abolitionist.

You should be.

I mean it's a very

long process, you know, it's it's a constant commitment.

But essentially what you're saying is you're acknowledging

that institutions that we are in are

builts on the foundation of slavery on

the foundation of Oppression. And those systems are not meant for anyone

right myself included everyone here.

The system doesn't necessarily care about us.

Before I move forward I do want to just let

folks know that.

I do not have all the answers. This is not like

these solution or racism would be solved.

I only offer these as humble

tools for you to use in your

own fights against systems of Oppression.

So that's the disclaimer. I don't

have all the answers or the solution. So in the

presentation today, I'll be talking about the system.

I'll be addressing your agency and

then also the collective vision.

Okay, first let's talk about the system.

Because it is wild.

Okay, the system, you know

was is here again oppressing every

single person even if you don't feel like you necessarily are

affected by it you are and I

love the way Bell hooks describes what the system is.

I want to get it right white supremist capitalist patriarchy

and I love the way that she describes that because she's talking

about really the the intersection of that oppression and

how it's not just one thing right? It's not just racism. I really

like the last the lightning talk that

talked about how environmentalism and racism are like really entertained.

Yes. Absolutely. So it's not just one

thing that is oppressing us and then we all need to be fighting

against it's a myriad of things and it's continuous.

It's pervasive. It's manipulative and

it does not care about any of us.

So, like I said, I am a minneapolis-based

and I'm sure

you all know some stuff that's happened in Minneapolis recently. So

on May th.

George Floyd and unarmed black man was murdered

by Minneapolis Police.

for allegedly presenting a counterfeit $bill

I think that.

Talks a lot about racism but also our value

on lives versus property, right?

Um, just under a year later on April th.

Dante Wright was an

unarmed black man in a car with an air freshener.

And was pulled over and killed by Brooklyn Center

Police, which is a police department that is right next

to Minneapolis. So everyone that was there at Minneapolis

in the streets is going to be there in Brooklyn Center.

And then this year Amir luck.

I was sleeping when police came into his

house and murdered him.

Okay. So this is this is the reflection

of the system right? These are the things that are happening right

now that we should really be concerned about.

so

I you know, I live in Minneapolis when

I was at I was

kind of halfway in Duluth, Minnesota and in Minneapolis and so

I was organizing a lot of protests and actions up

there in Duluth. And then I moved down to Minneapolis specifically

around Dante Wright. I was

already using this type. I created this type as a way for me to

kind of

Process everything's happening the hatred for black

people, you know in the country in the

world and I created this type

and it was really just a reflection of what community had already been saying, which

is stop killing black people.

You know, we've been saying a lot of things, you know, black lives matter all those things.

But this in particular was a phrase that like always was

ringing in my ear as I was in the front lines

of protest. So when Dante Wright happened, you know

it was

Coal or in Minneapolis. It was cold. It was

rainy people had their cardboard signs out there. We

were in front of the police station and they

had their gates in their barbed wire and they had all their militarized stuff

out there. And this is some of the things that they

were these were some of the phrases that they were chanting here.

And so while we were still mourning George Floyd and Derek

Chavin hadn't been on trial yet. We had this

new murder of Dante Wright and I was as I was there with other

community organizers one thing that we started

to do was gather up supplies. Same thing. We did in Gathering up

supplies for Frontline protesters. Like I

said, it was cold. So we have the, you know, the heating pads for

hands and for feet, you know, we were trying to

get umbrellas to protect us from chemical warfare because that's something

that Minneapolis Police love to do is used tear gas.

So we're using we're trying to gather up all

these things. We had, you know donations coming in all of that to help

us in surviving out there

trying to protest for justice.

And one thing that I

did see as a design problem was hey, it's like rainy and

cold and so all of these signs these cardboard signs. They're all

like melting right people don't actually know what we're saying and

we know that we use the press as a way for folks

to see what it is that we're wanting what it is that we're demanding. What is

the issue that's going on a matter of fact when I pulled up here in

the airport. There was protests happening at the airport,

you know, so people use signs as a

way for us to take photos of those document what's

going on?

So one of the things that folks were saying was stop killing black people along with like

people over property, you know, a lot of phrases that

we had been saying, but we wanted to amplify and

so I used design as a way to create those. So

I thought it's raining it's cold. Let's

create signs that are waterproof.

So that's what we did. We ended up doing that. I said,

let's close ourselves with warmer clothing.

That's what we did.

So we worked with printers in

the area to print a ton of free stuff.

And so it was only available to protest her. So if

you have it you were most likely there and so we

printed a ton of free hoodies signs buttons

all kinds of stuff and again got a

lot of media attention really unifying and amplifying the

message.

I think this is such a cool shot like the police

right there with like this vehicle. We're screaming

out Justice for Dante Wright.

Stop killing black people black lives matter all of the same things that

folks we have been saying.

but just using design as a way to sort of unify that

and a lot of folks are able to kind of take these signs put them

up in their cars. I mean, I I'm driving in Minneapolis. I will

absolutely see, you know, this the use of this type somewhere.

It'll be on the this picture right here with the no justice

no piece that was on the front page of the newspaper when Derek Chauvin

actually was convicted which is Nuance in itself,

right because it's punitive system. We don't like that either but a little

bit of Justice happening.

Yeah.

One thing that this type is also used for is

not just like to talk about all of the bad things that are going on but

also a little bit of Joy y'all know Common the rapper.

Yeah. Okay. So we was out there, right and

we had a table and common came up, you know,

we're like his little crew. I guess like to protect him. I don't know

and he came up and he like gave us a little twenty

dollar bill and like took a shirt. It was so exciting and then he was on stage with

the shirt. And so we also use that

type of way to sort of Express that joy and that freedom, right? This

is the day this is like I think a day after Derek shelvin

was convicted and we had this amazing commemoration for

George Floyd and common was there.

Also folks in community took the type. It

took the type. They applied it to the own thing their

own things that they do. So I have assignmaker who I

know Kelsey sharp and she took

the type and she used on a banner. We have businesses who would take

the type print out a whole bunch of posters and post them all over, you know

their wall and then you know, I had a fashion designer

here. It was Fashion Week happening like right around that time that

same time they took the type and they put it

on a jacket that they made.

So I had a lot of folks a lot of other organizers and a lot of folks who are

like organizers and and designers like I am want to

use the type. So I was like sure.

So I made a nice little style guide

with this type here and it's available free. I

you know have a whole little system here.

You can you know piece together whatever letters

you want. You know, I have really cool little phrases in

the in there, you know hidden messages and it's

awesome. So take your phones out. You can grab it.

You know, you have to use it for abolition purposes though. You

know, I want to see like somebody's birthday card with the name.

Don't do that to my stuff. Okay?

All right. So while you still have your phones out when we're talking

about the system you really have to be educated. So keep those funds out and take

a picture.

of this reading list

Yeah.

So those of you who are so interested in becoming an abolitionist, which

I know you are because I'm up here talking about it. Um,

this is just some stuff to get you started definitely not an exhaustive list,

right? But just some stuff to get you started abolition is

really not as complicated as we think it is. Yes, it's destroying a system

but you're also visioning and dreaming and making something new.

Okay, so educate yourself on.

What's going on?

Also, we want to do some listening. So we're trying

to understand what the system is doing for us and not

for us. We want to listen we want to listen to folks

who have been fighting this fight way longer than

I have. So we want to listen to people of color. We want to listen to

women. We want to listen trans folks. We want to listen to folks with disabilities.

You want to listen to queer folks. We want

to listen to all the folks who have who have a different lens on oppression than

perhaps we do and that's gonna help us when you know

crafting this amazing design solution, which I feel like

we're going to create one day, but we

just have to listen to the folks who are actually being harmed by

the system.

And we also want to listen to our leaders too. You know, what are

the leaders saying? And that actually brings me to my next Point. Let's do some watching,

you know, there's a lot of stuff happening in media folks

can you know say whatever they

want, you know say it's for some just

reason for some Jesus reason. I don't know and we

really need to be you know coherent we're

hearing those messages and we also need to be coherent

when people say things and how well

it aligns with what they're doing. Okay, so we don't want

performative activism happening, right? We want to be able to watch and

see what folks are actually doing. You know what that work.

Um, but I have to hang on to hope I feel like if you are

an organized if you're an activist, if you're doing stuff for justice, even environmentalism no

matter all of the negative stuff that's happening. You have to hang on

to hope so I love this quote. It's by my good friend Antoinette Carol.

She is the founder and creator of creative reaction

lab, which is a lot of social justice based stuff

and she says like all systems systems of

Oppression and Equity inequality. They

are by Design therefore they can be redesigned and so

I feel like that's a call to action to us as designers

to be able to use our skills and

our creative problem solving all of our amazing abilities to begin

to reimagine what

these systems could look like.

That's my next Point agency. Okay, use

your agency. Literally some of

you actually have agencies.

Use them use them

for the greater. Good. Okay, but really

what I mean by this is your positionality your identity who

you are and if you're waiting for someone to Grant you

permission to use your agency to like fight against the

system.

Permission granted. Okay, we need

you. And so this is a call to action

for you to show up in this case.

Yes, all lives do matter because we need your life to

help us in this fight.

So when I talk about agency first point here

is positionality your positionality. I'm sure some

of you've heard this term that really really really really

matters because your lens is going to you know, begin to

craft what your outcomes are. And so first you

understand who you are and what you've

got, you know, you've heard maybe that circle of influence, you

know, who are you? Who do you know and what can you begin to use?

Especially when things pop off right?

and you can actually use design to help you discover that so

what was mentioned in my bio is this solo exhibition

Umbra that I had created and it was really

a project to like

Empower black women and help other folks in communities

understand how they contribute to healing or the harm this

intersectional identity and it was a great way

for me to bring folks together, but also write for me

to investigate who I was as a black queer woman

and I encourage you all to use design to do

that as well. What is it that you have in your

past? What a biases where you brought up in what things

did you learn that you can discover and

begin to break down and then help other people break that down.

right

So Umbra was or is

an exhibition you can go to Umbra

exhibit.com if you want to see more of these images, but it

broke down identity in

six different ways. And I kind of touch on some

things like, you know, mortality rates and you know

birthing trauma and the burden of black women and

control from religious systems and then always there's a

piece of thinking about what could be

so I have

My six themes up here. I talked about racial gaze.

Some of these things can be attributed to you know,

says women the control.

Like I said, I'm not just religious institutions, but institutions in

general save your complex this role

that black women often are in to save communities

danger this black

woman stereotype of being an angry black woman the burden

this idea that we have to hold up this

broken system while having to also create a brand new

one. That's an interesting burden and Liberation. I

love to imagine what things could

be. So that's the kind of hope that I kind of hang on.

But my purpose in that is that

identity really does matter. Like I said, it's going to help craft those

outcomes. So you as a designer, you know that your

lens is going to affect your physical outcomes

in your work. It's also going to affect your actions

and your words those outcomes as

well as a community member.

But like Deepa ire States, we all

play different roles in pursuit of equity Liberation inclusion

and Justice Deepa Iyer

is the creator of this social

change ecosystem, which is a really amazing

tool for you to get started and find out what your role is. She

has a lot of amazing prompts and questions to help

you begin visioning and thinking about what role it

is that I play what roles that maybe people push you into as well

like that's not cool to be exhausted doing

this work. So it's really an amazing feat for

you to figure out who you are on your own terms. And

this is a really great way to do that.

Now as you all are finding out who you are

how you're going to use design to help conquer and destroy

the system. You want to make space. You want

to make space for your mess-ups, you know,

you want to make space for the times you get it

right? You want to make space for other people, especially when

you have areas of privilege in your identity and you

want to make space to infiltrate these systems. We have

to do it like on this weird parallel Continuum of

like actually being in the system of capitalism, but also

being like f*** capitalism, you know, so you

want you want to make that space and if you know,

they don't give you space.

You can do like Shirley Chisholm Hill and bring your

own damn chair or just just break the

whole table burn it down make your own s***. You know,

that's what you can do destroy the

table.

or be designers

you can craft and create and

we have so much amazing problem-solving ability if

we all kind of gather together and you know,

we're really

thinking about the same vision, you know, imagine what we could create we're

smarter than the system. So use

that power that you have as a designer.

This is a quote that I really love by WB Du

Bois that's all art is propaganda and ever must

be I do not care damn for any art that is

not used for propaganda. But I do care when propaganda is

confined to one side while the other is stripped in

silent and we know the side that's stripped in silent, right

the folks who's narrative doesn't get told the folks

who have been yelling and crying and wailing at

the front of the police Gates and

are not being heard. So we have to use that power that

we have and also,

We're here to start the piece. That's what

we're that's over here for you have this ability you have this amazing gift

use it?

That reason to my last Point here, which is Vision. Okay,

so we talked about system. We talked

about our agency and the vision now understanding what the vision

is is really going to help us in staying focused. Remember

the first project that I showed about the you know,

stop killing black people. What we were trying to do with

those words is try to create some type of uniformed vision.

And so that's what I want you all to begin to think

about making rooms for burning something

down so that we can create something new that should be

exciting to folks right? It's like when you get a client brief, you're like, oh

my gosh, this could be so amazing and then they like say make it

pop or something.

So so one way in which I like

to vision is by creating spaces and

rooms and Gatherings for

folks to really begin to think about themselves. I'm

especially if they're living in the marginalized identity and

one of the ways I did that it was through project natural and

project natural was a way for me to

I talked to like over black women. It's very

amazing how similar our experiences

are especially when it comes to hair discrimination.

You know in the United States, it was just this past year that we just got a

law passed that folks cannot discriminate based on

our hair, you know, which seems like it

should have happened a long time ago, but this literally just happened and so

project natural was like a call, you know again for me

to do some of my own searching which I think is super important, but then

also to bridge out to community so as

an educator I had to have these elements of educating within there

that you'll see in just a second.

But I'm a designer. I mean

illustrator and so what I decided to do is I wanted to

have a fashion background. Can you

tell and what I

wanted to do was like I was thinking about like fashion magazines and

like, you know feeling like when I looked at something I

was like, oh like that's what I want to be and I wanted to show black women

and black hairstyles in this

a really amazing light, you know, I want to

look like a front of a magazine. I also included like quotes from people

and things that they were saying about their natural hair. This is

one my favorite ones. There's a there's a fine line between looking

fashionable and looking homeless with natural hair. Like that's

a real struggle like, you know waking up and not

feeling like you even like the way that you look and so

there was just a lot of these, you know, a lot of these quotes a lot of things that folks

were saying,

That I wanted to you know, sort of put here on

these posters and I started off with and

the illustrations here. The hair is made

out of feathers. There's like a hundred and thirty seven different textures

of hair in the black community.

So I started off with these.

Moved on to what are these leaves leaves

in the next round of and then

these ones included kids which really got to the

intergenerational part there and these were flower petals.

And so super excited to be able to educate

with this tell how similar our experiences are to

one another and then also with that we

did like workshops. We have people come in teach folks how

to break teach folks, you know, what products to use in their hair

things like that. So this was a really great way of building community

and then after this we got to do a whole

fashion show

it

you

know

I like always want to like cry when I see the little kids and they're

just like

You know feeling all cute, I love that but for me

when I think about like the vision, I feel like there's a lot

of spaces where you know, we can feel free

like that. You know, we can dance down the the runway, you

know, we don't have to just walk and we can have

this this woman her name as Paula

and she's years old and you

know came into the project and really showed like this really intergenerational connection

was amazing. But to me

what that says is freedom

And when I think about a vision freedom is

one of the things I think about I've been talking a lot lately. I'm

like writing a book. I know too much. I know I'm writing

a book and I've been talking a lot about the gray

area. And when I think about freedom I think

about the gray area like the Nuance

of your identity and playing,

you know, again that parallel sort of

relationship and so I just want to say like when I

think about Freedom like also consider everything there's just

definitely not a black and white solution. No

matter that. My whole presentation is black and

white but

It's not it's nice. Not that clear-cut, right? So consider

that gray area when you think about freedom and then really

commit

when you find a vision, hopefully you're finding that

with community and you all are imagining and thinking about that together

commit to it.

Commit to it commit to that in your work commit to

accountability a commit to Healing from trauma

commit to commit to

it all.

And so Audrey Lord says what we

must do is commit ourselves to some future that can

include each other and to work toward that future with

the particular strengths of our individual identities.

So in conclusion my first in conclusion, you want

to disrupt dismantle and destroy.

Okay, you want to disrupt the status quo?

We want to dismantle the systems of Oppression.

And we want to destroy everything.

Okay with vision though, okay with vision. All right,

because this is what we want. We want Collective Liberation

a future where you know, we are all free from

violence right where we all get our physical and mental and

emotional and spiritual needs meant does that sound amazing? You

know, this is what we want. We want to be able to create and move together

to heal together and we want communities that are

based in love and compassion and equity and Justice.

That's that's what I'm thinking about when I

think about the vision.

So my real in conclusion.

This is what we should be doing as designers, but for Liberation, right?

Okay. Thank you.

I got us chairs. We got

you. I got us chair. I requested

this, you know, and I said my Collective Liberation

looks like I'm sitting down.

so

Well, you pointed out that you just performed for us. I did

minutes I did so and that you deserve

to become female. Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate that this

little Ally right here.

Wow, if it was that easy, no

for real. Thank you for sharing so

much of that to our audience listening. You can tweet questions. I've

seen a couple of them come in already using the hashtag rgdt

Folks at home the chat box use it

I will take a look at these things. But okay, I

have like backstage. I asked you if there any

questions you wanted me to ask. Can you like? Oh, you'll you'll find some and

I want to take a quick sec.

To point out because a handful of other presenters

have pointed at the typefaces that they were using mostly designed

by white folks and you were using one bigger.

Yes, I was I faces which was

designed based on the Freedom protests,

right?

Yeah, so hopefully you folks are

familiar with Trey's work vocal type.

We're straight based.

Oh, I can't remember. I know we spoke. He

spoke at last year's because I thinkers you can go back and watch that if you

want, but

he pulls a revives type

faces from from Old American activist.

With a very specific focus on black activism. Yeah,

it was cool to see that. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for noticing

that I think I think when we think about like Liberation and we

think about using design like it could really be little things like that. Yeah huge.

Well, I think about that all the time and in conversations

I've had with Trey as well about some

of the little things we can do as designers in our

effort to be allies, you know, when we are designing things

for folks that are

outside of our

Community looking for those spaces to incorporate as many

Other artists and influences as we can or the folks to

actually participate in the process and types one of those things. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Anyways, I was so excited

to see that

All right questions.

All right from Twitter.

Okay, this is gonna be one that like % of the room have and

I'm sure you've answered this a million times already. I've been

inspired to use my creative voice in response to social injustice,

but I've stopped myself because I felt uncomfortable speaking

about these issues from a place of privilege.

How can I be sensitive to that and still help?

This is a really good question.

I think

Even though I'm thinking about racial Justice, I'm

not living in a place of privilege. I still took time in

community before I did anything.

A lot of folks are just want to get there and they want to make their social media post and they

want to show like they're really cool design skills and all that

and like have their black squares and I cannot

tell you how annoying that is to see

and how much Community activists are actually making fun of you for

doing that.

and so like I said, I I mean was

probably I lived I've lived in Minnesota for six years the first

year and a half two years was spent on building trust in

community and I feel like there's

there's a lot of that not being done. Like our system doesn't

care about us. It doesn't care about us enough to you know,

say hey, like let's not have guns anymore because like

kids are dying and like if you actually had a relationship with

these families, you might be like pushed to do that a

little bit faster. And so I'd say my the first

step for even me who is a

black woman is to build community because you

don't know what's going on. And so those messages that

I have up there that I created with the type those came from Community. I

was just there to witness it.

And so I think that connection that trust

building is probably number one.

Yeah.

It makes me think a little bit about you know here in Canada

being being outside of the states.

every single

unarmed black man being murdered in the states. We feel really helpless up

here and when we have those conversations, I

think it's always important to remember that while

Racism is Alive and Well in Canada and and

some of our experiences just a little

different everything. You are saying applies to our

relationships with our indigenous communities.

Very much. So exactly so what then

relationships are you all having been with indigenous communities.

Well, and I think that's the question. How are you building those communities?

How are we building those communities and making sure we take time to actually

listen. Yeah, which is

one of the other through threads. I've sort of noticed over the course as

a conference and

too but and you will get into your presentation, beautifully.

Is this taking time to listen and also

looking for moments of like pure love and joy?

That is so important. Like I know I'm like really and

drenched in this work, but I have to roller skating.

That's my thing. Yes so far. Yeah,

I just gotten two new pair and I haven't used them. What color are they

purple and green?

Very important question. I know I know but you have to

find those moments. I'm right now planning this June th event.

That's like

Riddled with all kinds of stuff, but I'm very excited about the joy that's

going to happen. And there's like a roller skate.

It's going to be so awesome. But like those are the moments I'm talking about. Like there's

a whole bunch of s*** happening in Minneapolis. But like where I

can create some Joy or help in that effort.

Got to yeah, okay. I want to talk

about your art. Okay specifically because you talked

about using these art projects as a way to actually interrogate

your identity and how important that is for actually understanding how

your work's going to commit the world your actions and language where

it comes from. What was that experience like for you?

I mean you told us that you did it but actually going in making the

art and interrogating yourself.

I'm

I can't credit this phrase and I can't even say it right because I can't remember it.

But I was in my PhD class and I guess speaker

come in and she talked about when she does her writing and how

the page you just filled with tears.

And I imagine that's kind of the way that I create especially

work like that. Yeah where you're

investigating who you are why it is you are the Way You

Are

I mean, I think that comes with a lot of emotion and I feel like oftentimes we

don't get the chance to feel.

Also get a therapist.

Another conference thing. Thanks for

therapy like seriously, but like, you

know, this is really helped me get in touch with my feelings and be

able to feel like that Umbra show. I was

so angry. I was so angry at all the stuff

that was happening in Minnesota. And so having like

time to be able to dissect those things call it

something was really empowering and then also having that

little sliver I had someone come in and see, you know,

kind of stuff that was creating they were like, well, where's the

Where's the joy part? Like, where's the you know,

and I was like, I don't have joy, you know, but I

forced myself to think about that and I'm really

glad that I did Beyond because visioning Liberation is

like what keeps us going. So so yeah,

I would say like Express all of the feelings, you

know, if you do it privately, you know, I like people see me

cry, but I cry, you know, and and that's okay.

And so I think a lot of these projects that I do

that are personal projects are like really to help me grow and experience

like feeling and be able

to express that to other people because like when I was at the show, of course,

you know black women are coming to me crying and laughing

and all kinds of emotions. And so and and

I think that's the payoff right is you do all the struggling in

that work and then it actually speaks to a lot of other people there's a

Magic Moment sometimes I don't know if you experience it

but where you make all of that work

you go through that experience that process and then

it doesn't feel like yours anymore feel like it belongs to

the community.

Yeah, that's the type. That's the type for sure. Yeah. Yeah,

like something happens and you're like this is theirs.

Yeah, I think that's so cool.

Oh, all right. All right. You guys have questions.

Oh.

Okay, you do so much.

You do a lot of things I know.

What are some of the dreams of yours that

are on hold right now?

Oh, yeah, really want me to cry don't?

Day, you can you can what are some

of the dreams that aren't hold right now or how about future dreams

things are going to do in the next few years.

Take over the world. Now, you know, I honest think

you're already doing that, you know. Yeah. I honestly think about children.

Oh and that's definitely something that I

think as been on a hold for a very long time and it's

because every time you think about our you

see like the little you know, the girls walking down the stage and looking

all cute.

They're black. Another black person gets killed or you

know, you realize that black women are four times more likely to die in

childbirth in the US or you

think about all of the kids that were just shot.

so like I think as I like continue to do this work

like it that sort of like thought

being able to

You know rear children is something that I think is on on

home. Sorry if I'm dampening the mood.

Thank you for sharing that. Mmm. I think

that that's that's something to think about though like as

women as

What's the word ambitious and he want to do stuff?

Sometimes the family stuff does

get put on the back burner? Yeah, and it's not

even because you're ambitious like for me. It really is about like systemic racism.

Yeah, and like thinking about like bring a child

into this world or you know, even adopting a

child like what life am I gonna be able to provide that's not

constantly traumatizing them.

Isn't that one of the for certain

of parenting? This is true, but you

know.

Yeah.

You didn't have to share that. Thank you.

You're welcome. Yeah, I feel like I'm not alone in that

either especially as a marginalized person.

Okay, a lighter one.

Where did you get your earrings from? Okay, I knew

someone was gonna ask it and I'm glad this is a the

garden jewelry store. It is black

and woman owns and I feel like these were

like nine dollars.

so

the ashes seriously go online and the garden

jewelry store and get these.

Yeah.

Okay, when your own minority Community has

given up on being listened to.

How do you start building enough power for the community to come back together?

once question

I am when I heard that question first thing that

came into my head was this talk about

the abortion bands that are happening.

In the US and how black women specifically

have been saying like we have been already saying

This and like this abortionment actually doesn't change anything for black

women and how there's a lot of white women who are like very upset

and it's like we're tired of having to

say it all the time. We're having it tired of being out

there on the front line all the time and I just really

appreciate the fact that like some black women just like this is not my

fight and I think that's okay and so

I would say like

If you do have you know the ability or that position

of privilege.

support the marginalized community in that in that

rest and and take up some

arms like you go out like help us out,

you know, so I would say I would

love to see more like support from other

communities and then I don't think that I

mean like I said

therapy has really helped me having a community of organizers who

you know, I can talk about all the stuff that's happening has

really helped, but I would really

You know push folks to do that like that self-care. I

know that's like a phrase that everybody saying but like really caring

for yourself is like is really important in this

work. That was one of the other questions in here. How do you look after yourself while

roller skating clearly and buying fabulous

earrings buying fabulous earrings? Yeah. Let's see.

What else do I do? I mean, I really enjoy good food. So,

you know, I ate entirely too many

shrimp yesterday. It's great.

I was judging myself a little bit. But now you know, I'm just I'm trying

to just let it go those cocktails for a real hit note to

self. Yeah.

Every design thinkers needs shrimp. Yeah, I just kept

going back. So I

enjoy good food and I really enjoy laughing so, you

know, seeing like really good movies or just having a

lot of conversation like family functions, like people are always

talking over each other and yelling and all this and I love

that. So like being in those types of spaces are like ways

that I find care for myself amazing. We

are. Oh we have time for one more question. Let me

find one. Let me pick one.

Oh, they're typing.

How do you set safe and clear boundaries for yourself

in your advocacy when dealing with unsafe people

in situations?

We're going out on a big one. Yeah, that's a really

huge one.

How do you make sure you stay safe and the people you care about stay safe?

I mean

one of the things that you do when you're about to go out to the protests as

you have check-ins and there's like little acronyms you can

do for certain things, but some of

them are like, you know, especially if I'm with a whole

bunch of black organizers, like are you feeling like going to the

protests and being in the front line or you just kind of looking to step back and

like hand out, you know hand warmers or whatever

so I think

That's a way to make sure that we stay safe in

that is like really thinking about what your mental capacity is in

that moment. Are you okay being arrested today?

Like really checking in with one. Another is is

going to be the way that we keep each other safe one way

that I feel like

One thing that I have really thought about in this process of like

healing and Community transformation.

Is that gray area when I

talk about that I talk about like thinking about how folks

who have even harmed Community can

be Vindicated and it's really hard

to think about that. Like you're like Donald Trump can be like, you

know somebody that we'd want to be in community with and

like, you know who really are abolitionist and we

really are folks that are saying like punitive, you know punishment is

not what we want. We have to begin to think in that

way and that's why I say like, there's so much freedom in the gray area and I

feel like I'm thinking about safety but

also like my mental capacity like it's not my job

to hold on to that burden of making sure

someone knows that they're wrong because I think that they already know

they're wrong.

most of the time

and so it's really just our job to kind of

help rehabilitate and I think shifting out

of the role of like calling out people and canceling people and moving

to this role of like Rehabilitation. I think is

another way to sort of keep my mind at ease and safe. So

this is a couple of things. Yeah.

I think that makes a lot of sense and I think that the sort

of mental health piece of it goes hand in hand with the physical safety, right?

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. If you're not in it that day, you're not

going to stay as safe as you would be if you were aware. Absolutely.

We're yeah, thank you so

much. Yeah, thank you so much for sharing all of your

research with us. You're thinking your experiences and

some of that Joy those girls were amazing. Yeah, so

great.

Join me in a round of applause for today.